The Uratha Shall Cleave to the Human - Uratha Safal Thil Lu’u

[Malus]

By the narrowest reading, you are only forbidden from sneakily assassinating a member of the Tribes of the Moon.

Which is what Blood Talons and Hunters in Darkness tend to ascribe the most. The former because of their sacred prey, the later because of their tribal oath.

[Story Letter]

Well I believe adult stuffs ruin sessions, not that romance is bad, its just that it has to remain just romance, without inappropriate details ...
Now about the wolf thing well ... at least we can have human-blooded wolves

You know, once upon a time there was a great hunter in pangaea called the Father Human, etc etc

[The young man in the cafe]

We already had a couple threads on wereblooded wolves:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1122648-urhanu-%E2%80%93-wtf-wolf-based-werewolves

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/914222-forsaken-youths

[Helur]

anyone knows if this rule should be followed by the pure too? In the Pure book 1st edition the rule is of course present.
I think they sould follow it too. Even an men eater predator kings at armony 3 has his own human behaviour. Like hate everything.

[Malus]

anyone knows if this rule should be followed by the pure too? In the Pure book 1st edition the rule is of course present.
I think they sould follow it too. Even an men eater predator kings at armony 3 has his own human behaviour. Like hate everything.

The hate and savagery a Predator King tries to emulate isn't born of human emotion, but of the disgust that Urfarah's actual Firstborn feels for the clever monkeys.

[Story Letter]

anyone knows if this rule should be followed by the pure too? In the Pure book 1st edition the rule is of course present.
I think they sould follow it too. Even an men eater predator kings at armony 3 has his own human behaviour. Like hate everything.

So far I know that the Pure don't follow the Oath of the Moon, so I suspect the are sin free, it still affects their harmony by breaking it though, In game terms they still take breaking points but with less penalty than the forsaken. Though they take damage by touching silver.

[Helur]

The hate and savagery a Predator King tries to emulate isn't born of human emotion, but of the disgust that Urfarah's actual Firstborn feels for the clever monkeys.

Yep, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that they have actually an human emotional system, I mean, they live their ancestral hate and disgust through human feelings.

So far I know that the Pure don't follow the Oath of the Moon, so I suspect the are sin free, it still affects their harmony by breaking it though, In game terms they still take breaking points but with less penalty than the forsaken. Though they take damage by touching silver.

yea they follow the oath of the wolf in first edition, and the '' uratha shall cleave to the humans'' was present. Btw, I totally agree with what you said

[nofather]

They do seem more human-oriented this time around. At least most of them. It's easy to imagine the Predator Kings running militia-like compounds away from civilized areas, just like the Fire-Touched might have religious communes, seeking out humans gifted towards the spirit to add to their bloodlines. The Ivory Claws seem most likely to try to only mate with other werewolves, with their belief in the importance of bloodlines.

[wyrdhamster]

So far I know that the Pure don't follow the Oath of the Moon, so I suspect the are sin free, it still affects their harmony by breaking it though, In game terms they still take breaking points but with less penalty than the forsaken. Though they take damage by touching silver.

But even breaking Oath of Moon is only -2 Harmony Breaking Point ( I know, one of my players like to balance Harmony by this ). So what, by using Oaths of Wolf the Pure are only hit with -0 Breaking Points? It's almost non hit there...

[Story Letter]

But even breaking Oath of Moon is only -2 Harmony Breaking Point ( I know, one of my players like to balance Harmony by this ). So what, by using Oaths of Wolf the Pure are only hit with -0 Breaking Points? It's almost non hit there...

Shame on him (your player).
Not -2 penalty like the forsaken but -1 while breaking the oath of the moon which is cumulative with the rule that you also gain -1 penalty per harmony above or under 5. so a forsaken with harmony 7 will have -4 penalty on resolve + composure when checking for a braking point, while a pure one would have -3.

(-2 for oath breaking -2 for harmony 7 being 2 dots above 5, the same penalty would be for harmony 3.)

[Satchel]

Shame on him (your player).
Not -2 penalty like the forsaken but -1 while breaking the oath of the moon which is cumulative with the rule that you also gain -1 penalty per harmony above or under 5. so a forsaken with harmony 7 will have -4 penalty on resolve + composure when checking for a braking point, while a pure one would have -3.

(-2 for oath breaking -2 for harmony 7 being 2 dots above 5, the same penalty would be for harmony 3.)

The scaling penalty is directional; it's specifically there to make it easier to polarize to one end or another and harder to restabilize towards the middle. The Harmony 7 Forsaken would have a total -4 penalty for their Oathbreaking activities, but the Harmony 3 specimen would only be at -2 on the roll; their respective penalties would be reversed if they were instead killing a human packmate.

[Story Letter]

but the Harmony 3 specimen would only be at -2 on the roll; .

The page 104 of the cor book states my claim, so no.
Except if there is an errata out there I am not aware of.

[Malus]

The page 104 of the cor book states my claim, so no.
Except if there is an errata out there I am not aware of.

There in fact is a final download version of the corebook that fixed a number of errors with the text and layout.

[Satchel]

The page 104 of the cor book states my claim, so no.

"When a character hits a breaking point towards Spirit, he subtracts one die from the roll for each point of Harmony below 5. If the roll fails, he loses a point of Harmony. When he hits a breaking point towards Flesh, he gets a penalty for each point of Harmony above 5. If the roll is a failure, the character gains a point of Harmony. This means an Uratha’s Harmony can fluctuate wildly over the course of play."

This paragraph is consistent between the pre- and post-errata PDFs of Werewolf 2e Core. Violating the Oath of the Moon is a breaking point toward Flesh and 3 is not a number above 5.

[Story Letter]

This paragraph is consistent between the pre- and post-errata PDFs of Werewolf 2e Core. Violating the Oath of the Moon is a breaking point toward Flesh and 3 is not a number above 5.

I think the way this rule is written is probably flawed, the reason ?

Example

A starting werewolf has harmony 7 but hey why stay there ? lets go to the cool 5 huraaaah!!
I just have to sin unstoppably towards 5, oh I have no penalty on res + comp since I have to sin towards spirit, so thats difficult. but if I had a penalty because of my sin it would fall more easily.

Logical conclusion: its difficult to lose harmony from 7 to 5 and it is higly unlikely to happen if the player is not intentionaly making bad things, like eating people.

On the other side of the coin you need to violate spiritual stuff in order to rise from 3 to 5, also unlikely to happen, which means that a character once falling to a level of harmony he can go more easily upwards for harmony above 5 or downwards for harmony below 5, so in order to reach the desirable 5 you have to do nasty things in order to have a good chance, do you think that this is the intented design of harmony system?

Now lets say you do have harmony 5 and by a bad unlucky roll you fall to 4, you need to do a bad thing towards flesh in ordr to have grater chance to rise.

Don't missunderstand me, I believe that the system as it is its fine if you are willing to play the monster and do bad stuff, I don't think though that all pople would like to play that kind of game, which for me its awesome, but when you come to the point to violate the oath of the moon in order to achieve balance when you have 3-4 harmony, well that sounds somehow off.