The Pack is here!

[Yossarian]

I see, and appreciate you letting me know the idea behind it.

Ain't no thang.

[Errol216]

Vampires would make pretty good Elodoth-substitutes, yeah.

Prometheans are, in the end, not likely to be jerks the way vampires are. They might devastate the landscape, but it's unlikely that that's something they wanted to do.

I kinda want a story about a Promethean going from place to place, changing packs, but always keeping in touch with the road wolves while in transit. Sure, you'll never see him again, but you'll hear about him from your fellows all the time. And, maybe, when you're in need, he'll show up.

[Ephsy]

So, how does the Increased Potential for Totems work? Every new totem dot they get they gain a new Influence and/or Manifestation?

[Monghani]

Not going to lie, I tend to heavily dislike Mages and how they outshine Werewolves in their own background. Having a Werewolf supplement go out and straight up say that is...pretty disconcerting to say the least.

[atamajakki]

Not going to lie, I tend to heavily dislike Mages and how they outshine Werewolves in their own background. Having a Werewolf supplement go out and straight up say that is...pretty disconcerting to say the least.

That's not what it said, thought? At all?

[Monghani]

How else do you interpret Apprentice Mages being able to perform spirit magic even an Elder Werewolf can't do? Being intimate with the Shadow isn't much when someone can come in and wreck that shit.

[ArcaneArts]

How else do you interpret Apprentice Mages being able to perform spirit magic even an Elder Werewolf can't do? Being intimate with the Shadow isn't much when someone can come in and wreck that shit.

It's a difference between fish and submarines. The submarine might technically be a superior specimen, but the fish belongs there, and doesn't have to worry about prep time or something suddenly bursting the bubble.

That aside, what sort of spirit magic are we talking about?

[nofather]

That aside, what sort of spirit magic are we talking about?

It doesn't really get into specifics, just says, 'Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can’t.'

[ArcaneArts]

It doesn't really get into specifics, just says, 'Apprentice mages can work spirit magic even elder werewolves can’t.'

I figure it doesn't. But, you know, since we have Mage, I dare ask that someone show the teeth on the claim. Not because I doubt it's wrong, but because I fully trust my ability to show how a werewolf can subvert that exceptional capability.

Goonies never say die, and neither do werewolves.

[Kirby Jerusalem]

Well, it's not an Apprentice spell, but the ability to open up a gateway to the Shadow anywhere is pretty sick. That being said, I'm not in the camp that thinks that Werewolves are lacking any necessary tools - I feel like neither is better nor worse, they have entirely different capabilities.

[nofather]

I figure it doesn't. But, you know, since we have Mage, I dare ask that someone show the teeth on the claim. Not because I doubt it's wrong, but because I fully trust my ability to show how a werewolf can subvert that exceptional capability.

Goonies never say die, and neither do werewolves.

I think Cap the Well, Invoke Bane, Slumber and Opener of the Way are things you can't really pull off as a werewolf. But apprentices don't have a wide variety of abilities as it is.

My problems with the section do bleed over into the Mage group, now that I've mulled it over. Maybe it's the mood? It seems wary. In the vampire section it warns of war, in the mage section that, 'interfering with a mage is a great way to find out which fates are worse than death.' It sort of takes things from, 'Fuck yeah, us against the world, kick ass and take names,' that was in the core book to 'Okay it's a scary world out there guys, so be careful and try not to make these people mad at you,' which is sort of a bummer. The fluff was solid, though.

[Kirby Jerusalem]

I read it as one of those things where these supernatural types are largely out-of-context problems and Werewolves are largely cautious and uncomfortable with those. Even when they face something from the Hisil they don't know everything about, they understand the base logic of how and why spirit stuff works; they largely can't say that with the other splats.

Besides, after all the stereotype sidebars that talk down about every other splat that have existed in every book since WW opened their doors, a little bit of cautious respect is refreshing.

[Monghani]

I would be more in the camp of Werewolves being okay if Wolf Rites had more teeth in order to warp the Gauntlet. I keep thinking Werewolves can Reach in an area that resonates with their Totem, but not sure if I made that up or its actually in my book.

[atamajakki]

I think the main thing is that Mages and Werewolves have wholly different tools at their disposal, and exceed in different areas. Can a Thyrsus do more to a Spirit or the local Gauntlet? Maybe, but he can't also enter Gauru form, and he doesn't have a pack behind him.

[Kirby Jerusalem]

One thing about Uratha -not- being able to pop across from both the Shadow and the Flesh is that it puts a heavier focus on Loci, which IMO fits their focus on territory. It just matters more when Loci are not only fonts of Essence but are also key staging grounds that Uratha have to keep hold of in order to keep a consistent foothold in both worlds.

Is it more of a restriction? Undoubtedly. But it's a very thematic one that keeps the werewolves mindful of their surroundings.