The Pack is here!

[ArcaneArts]

Barbarians at the gate is always fun.

[nofather]

I read it as one of those things where these supernatural types are largely out-of-context problems and Werewolves are largely cautious and uncomfortable with those. Even when they face something from the Hisil they don't know everything about, they understand the base logic of how and why spirit stuff works; they largely can't say that with the other splats.

Besides, after all the stereotype sidebars that talk down about every other splat that have existed in every book since WW opened their doors, a little bit of cautious respect is refreshing.

First edition werewolf really pulled punches in that regard. 'They look human, but aren't nearly so soft and vulnerable. If you know exactly what one's capable of, and if he poses a direct threat to what's yours, hunt him down - but if not, think twice.' That's the only one that even suggested fighting them. Here's the first edition Ghost Wolf take on vampires, 'I don’t like being nervous, and finding out that these things are real and that they’re out there in numbers — that makes me real nervous.'

But these aren't stereotypes or out-of-context problems. These are sections about the Other as members of your werewolf pack.

I think the main thing is that Mages and Werewolves have wholly different tools at their disposal, and exceed in different areas. Can a Thyrsus do more to a Spirit or the local Gauntlet? Maybe, but he can't also enter Gauru form, and he doesn't have a pack behind him.

This isn't a power discussion, the actual powers don't matter. It's the way the section explores the relationships.

[Monghani]

Man, I really want to see redone versions of The Lodge of the Wire and Lodge of the Shield.

[atamajakki]

Yeah, the examples and references to all the Lodges was a specific style decision I took to try and make the text as useful as possible.

If I wrote up the Tinalosi, I'd want to write up the Clocktower at the same time given the two Lodges really don't get on with each other.



Glad you like it Malta is probably the most fun hunting ground, from my perspective, with all its weirdness and the way it plugs in to the wider world.



So the reference to wily Crows is of course the Lodge of Crows, ie one of the Storm Lord tribal pillars. I figured that if anyone was likely to have the savvy and sheer wit to catch fae-things in their net, it'd be the Lodge that specialises in that sort of informant/influence/info-gathering hunt approach.



I've mulled over this; I think I'd create a new Hunger or Carrion Gift for them.

For bonus points, I'd give the same Gift to the Lodge of the Field of Dogs if they ever hit the tribal level of power.

I'd pay good money for more Lodges from you.

If you care to spoil it, what's the general nature of their schism? And what do they happen to think of the Cult of the Doomsday Clock?

[ArcaneArts]

Man, I really want to see redone versions of The Lodge of the Wire and Lodge of the Shield.

How funny is it that I was just talking about the Lodge of the Wire earlier this night.

[Fumus]

So, how does the Increased Potential for Totems work? Every new totem dot they get they gain a new Influence and/or Manifestation?

Increased potential lets them buy more influences / numina / manifestations than their rank would allow for by using xp. Before spending xp they have the default build (1 influence dot per rank, 1 manifestation per rank, and 1 numina +1 for every 4 totem dots). So it doesn't grant free influences / numina, just allows for more to be bought.

[lnodiv]

I haven't had a chance to read through this thoroughly yet, but..

I was hoping to find material that would allow other supers to participate in Rites, etc, and benefit from certain pack conditions (the Sacred Hunt, for example). I don't see anything like that in the text where it describes incorporating other, stranger things into your pack.

Am I overlooking this?

[Monghani]

Other Supers aren't allowed to participate in Rites or benefit from the Siskur Dah Condition, but if they have the Tells that allows them to access Rites or Pack Tactics if they got them as Mortals.

[Ephsy]

Increased potential lets them buy more influences / numina / manifestations than their rank would allow for by using xp. Before spending xp they have the default build (1 influence dot per rank, 1 manifestation per rank, and 1 numina +1 for every 4 totem dots). So it doesn't grant free influences / numina, just allows for more to be bought.

What's the limit? If I got a total of 20 dots invested, they can get up to 20 dots in influence? Above their rank, too?

[Fumus]

What's the limit? If I got a total of 20 dots invested, they can get up to 20 dots in influence? Above their rank, too?

They can buy up to 20 (+ whatever the rank of a 20 dot totem is) dots of influence yes, but not above their rank. Influence is still capped by rank, but it means they can get more total dots of influence than what their rank is by spending xp. Normally a rank 3 spirit could only have 3 total dots of influences, but a rank 3, 15 dot wolf totem with could have 5 different influences related to wolves all at 3 dots, but it couldn't have a 4 dot influence unless it actually reaches rank 4.

[Kirby Jerusalem]

So am I missing the part of the Pack Tactics section that talks about how many Uratha are actually needed to perform a given tactic? Because I can't find it anywhere.

Edit: why does Overkill allow for every packmate to ignore defense for one attack each? From what I read, each effect can only be taken advantage of once; if you strip out the resistance debuff and the two lethal damage, would you be left with a one dot tactic that allows every packmate to ignore defense for an attack?

[Monghani]

I'm confused by that as well. Is the chart for Pack Tactics Price Boosters missing an option where you can spread the benefit to the group? If so, would it just be +1 to the cost? That appears to be the only way Overkill makes sense.

I see on the page before that it has this line:

Pack tactics that provide beneficial effects to the pack (or allies) are contested by a dice pool equal to the number of people the tactic could potentially affect.

So, at risk of sounding completely braindead, what?

[Bunyip]

What's the limit? If I got a total of 20 dots invested, they can get up to 20 dots in influence? Above their rank, too?

The Totem merit dots are a completely separate system to spending Experiences on the totem. If your pack invests 20 dots in the totem, they get 20 dots of whatever that gives them. They can then spend Experiences to expand the totem further.

[Bunyip]

So am I missing the part of the Pack Tactics section that talks about how many Uratha are actually needed to perform a given tactic? Because I can't find it anywhere.

Edit: why does Overkill allow for every packmate to ignore defense for one attack each? From what I read, each effect can only be taken advantage of once; if you strip out the resistance debuff and the two lethal damage, would you be left with a one dot tactic that allows every packmate to ignore defense for an attack?

Minimum Uratha is three (kind of hidden away and implied in the table on p.62), but if more Uratha (and qualified Wolf Blooded) are present, they have to take part unless the tactic specifically allows some to be freed.

Overkill was meant to only allow the primary actor to take advantage of the zero defence and extra damage. The rest of the pack confuse and distract the target, leaving it vulnerable to the primary actor's attack.

[Bunyip]

I'm confused by that as well. Is the chart for Pack Tactics Price Boosters missing an option where you can spread the benefit to the group? If so, would it just be +1 to the cost? That appears to be the only way Overkill makes sense.

I see on the page before that it has this line:

Pack tactics that provide beneficial effects to the pack (or allies) are contested by a dice pool equal to the number of people the tactic could potentially affect.

So, at risk of sounding completely braindead, what?

Say you create a hacking tactic that adds 2 dice to Computers for the next action. Normally only the primary actor benefits. It's a one-dot tactic. You can take additional effects to cover more people, so you take the effect 4 more times to cover when several of the pack are present. This is now a five-dot tactic.

Even though the tactic is beneficial, and the pack doesn't want to resist it, the scope makes it harder to perform. Because it affects five pack members, this tactic would have a Resistance of 5 and subtract 5 dice from the performance roll.