Werewolves seeing through Obfuscate in VDA20 and WTA20: a new perspective

[Hermeticus]

You are very right sir!! İ had totally missed that....

[Hermeticus]

Thank you. As for the effects on wounding with Obfuscate 4, yes, that's what İ imagined too, depending on how you wound them.
As for the unbreakable invisibility, İ saw VTM20 does specify it's broken like Unseen Presence, though VDA20, as we said, doesn't specify. So it's up to the ST, İ guess.

Generally, İ like more how the whole discipline is written in VTM20 because it's clearer, but wouldn't mind if the ST allows me to play invisible man in VDA20... lol Though enemies would then also have this ability....

[Hermeticus]

Sorry for the thread necromancy.

I am actually having trouble understanding how the discipline is written in VDA20 and V20, which obviously affects my judgement on its being underpowered or overpowered.

1) does Mask of a Thousand Faces work on anyone who sees you at once or must you choose one victim at a time? I have always assumed the former, but today I reread the power and the phrasing made me doubt. If it works on anyone who sees you, great. Awesome power. If it works on one person at a time, it would be very awkward to use.

2) reading Vanish from the...

[Hermeticus]

The way I read it, as an ST I would grant complete immunity regardless of power level. It's what the wording says to me, plus giving up Rage is quite a sacrifice, especially if having to confront a vampire, and especially if it's an elder. And its need to be activated makes it already less useful against surprise attacks....

[Hermeticus]

For the record, I just saw the third level Metis Gift "Shell" (WTA20, p.157) which gives full immunity from "mind-altering magic of all kinds" for one scene. That would work against Obfuscate in my understanding, as well as Dominate and Presence.

[Hermeticus]

I deleted the reply to Heavy Arms because I was tired when I wrote it, then I reread his message and thought I probably missed his point

[Hermeticus]

True that. It is a bit annoying to have so many things that have to be sorted out between Narrators and players because the rules leave weird gaps.

I am totally fine with the idea of vampires having special invisibility powers that werewolves struggle to break, and since vampires are a low-ranking concern for werewolves and not every clan has Obfuscate, it makes sense lupines would not develop gifts to counter it. In fact, since vampires typically are weaker than werewolves until they become elders, it makes perfect evolutionary sense that they would have a discipline that shields...

[Hermeticus]

Thank you. Indeed, resistance to mind control would be the key here. Might need to re-read the list of gifts to see which ones offer that. In fact, in VDA20, 3 dots in True Faith (or maybe 2) protect from mental manipulation, and Obfuscate is explicitly listed there along with Dominate.

As for Auspex, I agree it is weird, but I think the deal with it is that Auspex by itself, regardless of its specific powers, pierces through mental illusions as well as illusions of the senses, yet it does not pierce through metaphyisical or mystical veils (ex: it doesn't let you see spirits or ghosts...

[Hermeticus]

Hi! I know this issue has come up in other threads, with one of the most frequent answers being that there is no set system to determine whether werewolves can see through Obfuscate, but generally one compares the werewolf's rank (as if it was Auspex) with the vampire's Obfuscate rating if the werewolf has a gift to see through supernatural concealment. This is the take that most stayed in my memory, though others were offered.

Now, here's my problem: we are playing VDA20, but using WTA20 for werewolves rules. We are not using other supplements from either line. I went through the...

[Hermeticus]

I think your analysis and comparison of the systems is fairly accurate. Changing the soak rules changes the game a lot and makes characters much squishier. I think it's better to either keep the soak system as it is, or switch to Requiem altogether rules-wise (one may keep Masquerade setting, of course).

In the VDA20 Companion there is an alternative system for soaking and faster combat. I didn't fully get it when I read through it, maybe I was in a rush, but I recall it leaving me with the impression that Fortitude and Serpentis 3 (and maybe other powers that make one more resistant...