Elemental Gift Control

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Perfect, for some "attack" use where there could be additionnal damage (without any kind of limitation in the raw for we never know when a pc or the st can come with a bright idea) it would suremy be enough to roll like for the explosion charms with a potential bonus depending on the nature of the attack (smash with a huge rock, wind propulsion, fire tornado or a wave that crash over the poor victims

Thanks for the help guys ...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

So when you must determine the axact effect you say that if a pc use this gift the ST roll the spirit's gnosis as nexus crawler would do for "warp reality"?...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Asmodai We're talking about the Rank 5 Lupus gift "Elemental Gift" that allow you to control à (huge) volume of the chosen element by summoning an elemental spirit as powerfull as a nexus crawler (according to the w20 description). That gift is powerful but it only tell how much you control and not how you control.

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Black Fox The exploding glass part was brought by Saur ops Specialist, i was talking about the 4 classical element and how you manipulate them according to the elemental gift description. Again when i read it the first thing i had in mind was the "Avatar the last airbender" kind of manipulation, not only the natural disaster part (wich is already pretty powerfull alone)

So for some complex use like build a stone wall, lift and throw something with the air etc i was wondering what roll? Gnosis? Attribute + Capacity, and wich? As you said the gift description is confising,...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

In wich book is it stated? I'd like to take a look in it, that will surely give me enough information to better build my story...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Wouldn't it depend on what kind of thing you add on the fetiche? In that case let's say you bind a war spirit in the shotgun and then add the bayonett to it, would it displeased the war spirit? He's binded to a weapon and you make it deadlier after all. And in the case of a classic riffle on wich you put a grenade launcher? If we assume that the addition is in accordance with the spirit, could it not be accepted and considered as a way to satisfy that spirit?

In addition to be certain on what the garou can or cannot do he could directly ask the spirit's fetiche with the rite of spirit...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

I don't underestimate exploding glass, the explosion charms is pretty powerfull for glass spirits and other, i just thought that elemental gift give you the ability to control a certain amount if the chosen element and let you make whatever you want with that amount, not just move it from a point to another but manipulate it as you like.

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Firstly i had the "Avatar the last airbender" kind of elemental control, that's why i've thought about rolling for some specific action involving the chosen element. The elemental spirits can use many charms to interact with their own element or defend themselves, "explosion" charms is a good exemple of what kind of action a fire elemental can do and the book encourage the st to grant them any powers that would be relevant with their power (gafflin, jagglins...).

But I may have overestimated the capabilities of this gift

[Cain Loup-Noir]

The roll to activate that gift define how much of the chosen element is controled, but it does not tell how you control it. It isn't annoying in a simple situation, like move a huge rock from the path, lift something with the air, create a small inondation etc... But how would you do if as a st you give it to the ennemy? Or if a pc obtain it? If the pc or npc decide to control fire and throw that (huge) amount of fire agaisnt someone? Would you roll it like the explosion charms? And wich caracteristic, Dex/wits + Primal Urge/Occult, Gnosis?

It is not said in my book, i've checked...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Personnaly i play it like in v5: one roll and a damage bonus added to your result (werewolf claws +2 damage, bite +1 and use the v5 rules for weaponery bonus). Soak is always full and when a pc or npc has a lot of stamina, armor, or both they must use dex instead of strength to target a weak point or use specials moves to weaken their opponent (tear their armor appart, attack from behind. We got rid of damage and soak roll, wich make combat deadlier and faster.

We've got rid of damage and soaking roll since almost 2 years, now. After few adjustments and a houserule for rolling importants...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Also one of my rule, V5 also tell to use strength for brawl attack. You still make the damage roll by using strength Asmodai?...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

So if i understand basically if something exist it has a spirit, the rite allows them to awake and communicate and when they slumber they can be seen or not in the penumbra depending on their importance or existance time.
If ephemera is the "matter" that compose things in the umbra it compose also spirits themselves, logically...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

In fact one of my player asked if awake a spirit with the rite make it come to life or if ot was already "alive" but sleeping. Then i thought about it and since then i find the question interesting
Are spirit born the same time as their physical part become important enough or for long enough? When can we tell a spirit is alive but sleeping? As everything in the umbra can be called spirits from rocks and wind to idea are they all sleeping gafflin? The core and Umbra books tells that in the Umbra things are composed with spiritual energy called ephemera, is that energy only energy...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Perfect, now i can work with my story, thanks a lot Black Fox ...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Black Fox Now that's clearer. But now i know that this Rite awake a Spirit permanently (or at least until it is left without any interaction and slumber again) i wonder some other things: a spirit can grow in power with it's importance, i remember reading somewhere (the umbra book i think) that a simple gafflin spirit can become a jagglins when he become strong enough to represent it's forest in general. Let's take the exemple of an awaken sword handled by a garou for a long time and give him a small help (1bonus die, difficulty reduce by 1 or +1 damage die). With time and growing bond between...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

The W20 talk about bus, and the sanctification version about plants. As that gift work on most things what would give a sword/gun/tool awakened? The rank 1 homid gift description tell that it allows the garou to awake the spirit of any tool and the result is a difficulty reduction for 1 use, in v20 the first power of the Spiritus Discipline give some bonus dice for 1 use of an object spiritually awakened.

Are those some possible effect of the rites and does the rite give a longer time for the effect? Or is it only a small boost that reinforce the object the same way it does on plants?...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

I wanted to make a great opponent to throw at my pc, so make it a rank 5 gift that allows the BSD to create ghost to summon as an army and use them as physical protection is perfect.
In my story that BSD as quickly rose through the ranks and distinguished himself by his ferocity and ingenuity. The pack of my players is hunting him down, but they have learned that this BSD is able to steal the souls of the dead and command them. So far they haven't caught up with him yet and the monster has slaughtered kindred and werewolf packs that now serve him in death. The pack must slay him not only...

[Cain Loup-Noir]

Great option for the ghost control, but do you think it would be better to nerf or replace the Stolen Hide gift? By adding a limit to the number of bruised level it give, the number of ghost you can bind or adding the Willpower of only 1 ghost at the same time to the soaking pool of the BSD?...