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[ArcaneArts]

Wyrd Sorcery is better represented by Dramaturgy these days.

To the original post, I'd more readily propose a set of Autumn Mantle-linked metamagic merits than a whole new subsystem. Changeling already has a lot of magic in it and learning a whole new one is just edious. It's probably more on point for Autumn to get more bang for their buck in that way, more akin to Incepts....

[ArcaneArts]

I will take my win for being half-right on the ground of the Dedicated Tool benefit being a rider to the yantra.

[ArcaneArts]

Gibb, stop pestering them about it....

[ArcaneArts]

Strictly speaking, you don't owe the people on your ignore list anything, but I generally make a note of it when it seems like they're trying to talk to me.

[ArcaneArts]

Uh, yeah they do. Any Discipline a vampire doesn't inherently know requires them to find another vampire who knows it and getting into a blood bond with them. Admittedly not a typical teacher, but definitely a case of the same problem....

[ArcaneArts]

Yeah, the premise that a bog standard mage (actually, let's lay it out as it is, a new mage character from the corebook) could easily wipe out a coterie basically never really worked as nicely as originally thought, and I say that as someone who technically owes the Arrow fans a write up on how to be devastating with Space.

Don't really have time to look at everything, but I feel like i never hurts to re-point this out....

[ArcaneArts]

That's a Tempter....

[ArcaneArts]

And then, a day later, I remember what xianxia actually is. Nvm the old argument.

[ArcaneArts]

I'm going to advise against this conversation? Even if it's respectful towards religions, forms of spirituality, and metaphysical philosophies, there's probably just an inherent bad taste towards comparing them to stuff like this, particularly stuff like monsters.

[ArcaneArts]

I mean, most situations I would model it off the Forces Mage Armor, which I suppose drops the general level down around Fraying....

[ArcaneArts]

I have, but not in any kind of particularly deep order-it's currently on my "If I have space left" list, after making sure things like Lair, Satiety, Forswearing, and Inheritances work. The main iteration of the like idea is that every Hero starts with a Lair Trait for the Hero's Journey/Waymaking keyed to their Family, starting with the world agreeing with their base assesment and building from there.

[ArcaneArts]

Arms already addressed Proper Citation, so back to this:

I wish I had a specific source citation for the fact that World of Darkness was starting to Not Get Returns, but it comes up enough in regards to the subject of Reasons Why the Shift to nWoD enough that I'm willing to safely rely on it as a probable fact. It helps that 9/11's shake up of the economy did a lot to kill moderately profitable RPG's of the time (I know for a fact it was why Guardians of the Order stopped being profitable, which eventually led to selling BESM Third Edition to White Wolf), so it's not unplausible given...

[ArcaneArts]

Oh sure, I agree, and I even made that point when I said "that might be the reason you owe them death rather than redemption."...

[ArcaneArts]

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but if I passed on a chance to refer to the Seers of the Throne as the Tyranny of the Defeated, I'll have missed something, so I'm going to mildly disagree about even high end Seers being unsympathetic.

The big thing to the Seers, whether they be punch-clock metaphysician or priest of the asshole tyrants, is that all of them gave up at some point on something at some point. Maybe it's just that trying to fathom the unfathomable just gets to be too much, maybe it's because the Lie seems too engrained into reality, maybe it's because you lose the ability...

[ArcaneArts]

Sorry for your loss....

[ArcaneArts]

It probably pays to not reverse cause and effect. This thread didn't emerge from reading The Silver Ladder and Free Council supplements and then ask the question as a logical extension of what those books said about vampires, this thread emerged because Ib strongly dislikes vampires and beasts and expected the two orders with the most superficial interest in Sleepers to share in that opinion and to act on it, and happened to have text that supported that take.

I realize that sounds like nitpicking, but It's important to see how Lysander's comment is highly relevant, because the leaders...

[ArcaneArts]

It's been cleared up already, but to be clear-No, the Chinese Communist Party did not kill White Wolf. The folks who make Eve Online were the final nail on the coffin.

Honestly, I'm a little concerned you readily took the Chinese Community Party angle rather than asking for clarification....

[ArcaneArts]

Probably more an Invincible, but if there was any charisma in the character, there might be a reasonable Sacrosanct in it.

[ArcaneArts]

Awakening learned from the mistakes of Ascension, and is therefore a lot less relative about it's moral positioning. The Pentacle may be assholes, because all mages are assholes, but the Seers, while complex and dynamic in a lot of ways, are unmistakably the bad guys. Chronicles is largely Grey-and-Black Morality, but is pretty crystal clear about who is what on the whole.

You can have meaningful interactions with Sleepers, you're just not going to get away with throwing a fireball around a non-Sleepwalker. You can even go on investigations or infiltrations with Sleepers, and even...

[ArcaneArts]

Nope. White Wolf was already facing a decline for a variety of reasons before NWoD even entered into the picture (hell, 9/11 was a not-insignificant factor), and in fact one of the many reasons behind making NWoD was dealing with those factors and keeping them from exacerbating. NWoD actually did a fairly good job keeping the lights on, at least in terms of the new modus operandi White Wolf had to change into to keep awake at all.

Why the original White Wolf eventually "died" is a mess of factors, but if we have to name a final nail in the coffin, it was the partnership...